Thursday, April 2, 2009

Class #3 postgame


I'm posting this ahead of time in case I forget... the reading assignment for Monday is the entire Brecht Antigone (1-64), and Ch. 21-22 of the Course Guide ("Public Writing" & "Counterarguments"). Kickoff is Yen for Brecht and Rosa for the lecture. Oh, and don't forget to post your keywords... I've done some research into the original Greek for you in the comments below, and some of it turns out to be pretty interesting. I also went back and commented on your earlier posts... I would have done this last week, but it was a kaka week for me, as the Greeks would say.

But there's more... you should also read and familiarize yourself with the Paper #7 prompt, and you should do the new Discovery Task by Tuesday night (post to EEE dropbox).

Note on Discovery Task: the instructions say you that your instructor will assign you a certain article. I want each of you to find your own article by Sunday night on JSTOR... you can email me the titles or the links. Try some different search terms in addition to Sophocles and Antigone, like "burial" or "Hegel," or perhaps your keyword. I'll read them and choose the best one, then tell you about it on Monday. Then you can all read that one and do the D.T. worksheet questions about it for Tuesday night (submit to EEE dropbox).

Note on photo: that's not my uncle's grave... his headstone isn't finished yet. It's my grandparents'. Notice the rocks on top of the headstone... I'm not sure if this is just a Jewish custom or if other people do it, but whenever we visit the cemetery we put rocks on top of the headstones. I'm not sure why either... I'll look it up later this weekend. That's my wife and the little kids are my uncle's grandkids... first cousins once removed (?)

Follow-up... the rocks go on the gravestone as a marker of the visit, which won't blow away and lasts longer than, like, flowers. Here's some other details... we use the back of the shovel to shovel dirt into the grave once the casket is placed in, to show regret. We're supposed to wash our hands before entering the house after the funeral. Pregnant women aren't supposed to attend, but on the flipside you're supposed to eat eggs to encourage new life (?). Cover the mirrors. No wearing leather (because it requires another death?). Those last few my family doesn't really do. Oh, but you also have to tear a garment of your clothing... my dad taught me how to sneak away to the bathroom immediately after a funeral so the rabbi didn't cut our ties off. And you sit on boxes. Not joking... I think traditionally they were wooden boxes but now it's cardboard (I think you're suffering discomfort to show solidarity); if you're really religious you're supposed to sit on the box all day for like two days. And finally, the most important funereal tradition in any Jewish family from New York, going to the very first baseball game at the new Yankee Stadium. OK that isn't a tradition, just a consequence of my niece being sick and my sister having an extra ticket. I like to think Zeus rewarded me for breaking my loyalties as an employee of the State of California to go the funeral.

Oh, and yes. I did in fact where that same suit for 48 hours straight.

18 comments:

  1. Scene A: Ankita and Aubrey

    Antigone: traitor

    Ismene: Sensible

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  2. Good ones. I'm glad the exercise seems to have worked. OK so I looked this up, and it's interesting. Antigone doesn't say traitor in the original Greek; she basically says no one will ever have the courage to capture her. On further review, no one in this play ever says traitor and the word may not exist in ancient Greek. The word I see them using alot is "kakistos" (κάκιστος) meaning "the worst" or "horrible," "shit," etc.

    Same for sensible... Ismene says nothing of the sort in the Greek, and this is a purely English word... think of "sense and sensibility." A Greek equivalent might be logikos, λογικός, meaning logical.

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  3. Scene B: Yen and Rosa

    We chose the words justice and wisdom.

    Was this all we had to do? I thought there was more to it but not too sure.

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  4. Scene B: Lorena and Alexa

    We chose Woman and Treason

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  5. Scene D: Annie and Kiyomi

    We chose the word(s): "wisdom/wise" for both of our characters, since they both seemed to have different meanings for the same word. Since I wasn't sure if we needed two words, I went ahead and picked "stubborn" for Creon and "fallen" for Tiresias.

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  6. Scene D: Stephanie and Elim
    We chose the words "wisdom" and "gain" for each of our characters and they both had different meanings the 2nd time we read through the passage. "Wisdom" primarily refers to Creon who in the first reading felt angry that his "wisdom" and authority were being questioned by Tiresias' prediction. He was also unsure if he was confident in his "wisdom" and instead of displaying his discomfort, became defensive. In the second reading, Creon is more confident of his own "wisdom" and sees that of Tiresias to be more a joke.
    "Gain" refers more to Tiresias who in the first reading is referring to "gain" in a more metaphorical sense where Creon letting Antigone go would be taking steps to be a better ruler as well as preventing the prediction from coming true. In the second reading, gain" was strictly monetary.

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  7. Lorena & Alexa... again, there is no word for treason/traitor... Creon says ἀκοσμοῦντας (akosmountas = "disrupters")... note the connection to the word cosmos, or order... thus those who cause disorder... very good keyword

    As for woman, the word is γυνή (goun, as in AntiGONe, GYNecologist, GONad, etc.)

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  8. Yen & Rosa... it's interesting that you should choose justice, because what Haemon actually says is δίκαιος (sikaios), which means custom. He says he's gone against custom... it may be that the words are not different in meaning... you can see why Plato/Socrates would take issue with that in their search for eternal truths that aren't just merely customary.

    As for wisdom φρένωσις (phrenosis... same root as our word knowledge), the translation misses some of Creon's sarcasm, because where Fagles has "sermons," Creon uses the same word, so he basically says "all your wisdom is empty wisdom" or something like that.

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  9. Annie & Kiyomo... the word Tiresias uses is εὐβουλία (enbongia)... meaning prudence or good judgment.

    For stubborn, Tiresias uses two different words, ἀκίνητος (akintos, unmoving, as in kinetic energy). And then αὐθαδία (stubbornness, a bit more literal.)

    Fallen, from πεσὼν ("peson," he falls).

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  10. I already did wisdom, but the word Creon uses for gain is κέρδος (kerdos)... and it has both meanings you pointed out, the literal and figurative.

    I read somewhere, maybe in the Fagles intro, that Creon's obsession with the idea that all of his enemies are merely interested in gain was apparently something common to autocrat/tyrant governors in Athens during Sophocles' lifetime, which would have clicked with the original audience.

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  11. Scene C: Antigone and Chorus

    Keywords from Chorus: Terrible ordeal and dead

    Keywords from Antigone: Cursed/doomed and death

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  12. Scene B: Rose and Mark
    Keywords:
    -"father/Father" by Haemon (line 847) and Creon (line 848) respectively
    -"justice" by Haemon and Creon (lines 831-833)

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  13. Sorry I'm posting this so late! Steve and I were assigned section C between the Chorus and Antigone. We chose the words "death" and "breath" (or breathe, breathing, etc.)

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  14. Scene A: Antigone- Ismene

    Keyword: Ismene(p. 63)= Afraid
    Antigone(p. 63)= Fear

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  15. Christine and I worked on Scene C.

    The keywords we came up with were cursed, doomed, and death by Antigone and dead and terrible ordeal and by the Chorus.

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  16. **** Monique and I worked on scene A togther. Sorry, I forgot to mention her in my first post!!!!!!!!!!******* =]

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  17. Scene A: Sarah and Marko

    Antigone: Outrage

    Ismene: Extremes

    We tried to pick something that refelcted the rules/laws of the Gods. Antigone takes about how it would be an outrage to defy them while Ismene calls the conclusion Antigone assumes to be extreme.

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  18. justice (see previous post)

    ordeal (the word I find elsewhere is πόνος = ponos = work, but what the Chorus actually says here is αθλον = athgon = prize... pay for your father's prize is obviously intended to be ironic)

    death (θάνατος = thanatos = death, Ἅιδης = Hades = hell/underworld... corpse = νεκρος = nekros, f.y.i.)

    doomed = δύσποτμος or δύσμορος = dyspotmos/ dysmoros = (unlucky, ill-fated)... I also see
    τάλας = tagas = suffering, wretched to refer to members of this family all over the play

    father = πατήρ = pater

    to fear for someone = ὑπερδείδω = eperdeidoh (this is the one Ismene uses on ln.96)
    to fear beforehand, like anticipatory fear =
    προταρβέω = protarbeoh (this is the one Ismene uses on ln. 97... you'll recognize the prefix "proto" meaning before)

    outrage... this one is really interesting; what Antigone says is ὅσια πανουργήσας (osia panourgesas), meaning basically, that she will be a holy criminal (!)

    extremes... the word Ismene uses is περισσός = perisos, meaning beyond the regular number... but actually it comes in the midst of a strange metaphor about vipers (!) that I am unable to translate

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