AS SOON AS POSSIBLE: Post your group's Sophocles vs. Brecht comparisons in reply to this post
FOR TUESDAY NIGHT: Discovery Task #5 to EEE dropbox. Do the worksheet for one of these two articles... This article tries to understand how the Creon-Antigone conflict would have looked to its original audience. This article rejects the idea that the Creon-Antigone conflict is symmetrical, using feminist theory to discuss the importance of Antigone's gender.
FOR CLASS WEDNESDAY: read Course Guide ch. 22 and 24 ("Counterarguments" and "Translation")
FOR CLASS FRIDAY: read Kleist's "Michael Kohlhaas" pgs. 114-63 and Course Guide ch. 23 and 25
SUNDAY NIGHT: Ideas Draft #7 to EEE dropbox (I'll give you guidelines on Wednesday)
FOR CLASS MONDAY: read Kleist's "Michael Kohlhaas" pgs. 163-213
THURSDAY NIGHT 4/16: Working Draft #7... my addenda to the prompt are:
-You can choose one of the four passages you did in class on Friday to analyze for the paper (Antigone-Ismene on 47-97, Creon-Haemon on 812-859, Antigone-Chorus on 900-958,
and Creon-Tiresias on 1123-1169)... you're not forbidden to go outside those passages, since the actual dialogues are longer, but place your major focus on the line numbers I'm giving you
-You can interpret the assignment somewhat loosely as an analysis of the rhetoric the two characters use... you can invoke ethos/logos/pathos, counterargument (see Guide ch. 22), and any other strategies they use... don't obsess about everything that the prompt says... get the spirit of the assignment, and see my ideas draft questions for further guidance... for instance, the prompt asks you to "evaluate" the arguments... does that mean according to your standards, according to the reception by the Chorus within the play, or according to the probable reception by the original Athens audience? The prompt doesn't really specify, so you can interpret as you wish. Just make sure the bulk of your paper is devoted to analyzing what they say, how they say it, and why they say it.
-You are required to make use of one of the two JSTOR secondary sources, in some fashion
-You are required to make use of one of the dozen or so keywords we found, in some fashion
-You can invoke a comparison to the Brecht Antigone or to another adaptation or translation, but only as a supporting point, not the core of your paper
-You can invoke Hegelian dialectics, but only as a supporting point, not the core of your paper
-You can invoke Erwin Kowalke, or burial practices in your family/culture, or what-have-you, but only as a supporting point, not the core of your paper
TUESDAY NIGHT 4/21: Final Draft #7... to include works cited, acknowledgments, and reflection (ask me to elaborate on that before the due date)
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Group: Annie Ditta, Sarah Devine, Kiyomi Iihara, and Marcee Delacruz (I hope... hahaha :) )
ReplyDeleteFor our two differences we chose the following:
1. The difference between the nature of Polynices being a traitor. In Sophocles' version, Polynices breaks away from Creon and then attacks him, but in Brecht's version Polynices is a soldier in Creon's war and then deserts, making him a traitor to his country by abandoning his fellow troops. (This is specified in Brecht on p. 16, in Antigone's first speech explaining the circumstances.) This is an important change because Brecht uses his play as a critique of war, and Sophocles was clearly not anti-war, as this was not Greek nature of the time. Brecht wanted to use his play to show people the evils and negative aspects of war, and so he changes the focus point to be one of war so he can critique it.
2. The second difference we pointed out was Antigone's speech to Creon when he accuses her of committing the crime. In Sophocles' version, Antigone is merely accepting and calm about her actions - she says that she did it and that is about all that she does. However, in Brecht's version she is much more confrontational and stubborn when Creon accuses her of committing the crime. (This can be found on p. 28 and onward.) This is significant because Brecht, as earlier stated, uses this play to make a statement about war. If he kept Antigone passive, he would not be able to effectively point out how terrible war and its consequences are. In this section, Brecht uses Antigone as a figure to critique power in the time of war - again something that Sophocles would not have made a point of addressing.
The rest can use this one as a model.
ReplyDeleteA difference between the two versions is the tyrannical overlord. In Sophocles, Creon is the demanding ruler. However towards th end, Creon's strong and demanding character is breaking down. This is clearly see on page 116 where he is asking for advice and panicing. In Brecht's version, Kreon is always in a strong and demanding state; even when he is losing the war, he explicitly states that the state will end with him which can be seen on page 64. By having Kreon always be in a strong and demanding mode, Brecht gives an alienating effect to the character and alludes to Hitler. When we don't see Creon breaking down, we don't carry much sympathy for him, because he does not seem as human as when a person breaks down. When we think of Hitler, we don't think of him as human, but an evil tyrannical overlord who created a war, his war(War War II).
ReplyDeleteA second difference is family and war. In Sophocoles, the question about family and state. In Brecht, the question the play raises is focused on mainly on the state. Becht creates a powerful alienating effect(mainly on characters) so that the audience can think about more about the state; especially about the states and the war during World War II.
Group: Monique, Ivan, Steve, Priya
ReplyDeleteA significant difference we found between the two versions of Antigone was within the content, more specifically the reason for the wars. In the Sophocles' version the war is a succession of power; almost most of the tension that results between individuals shows a struggle for power. After Oedipus, the next in line to political power is Creon, and following him is the power struggle between Etocles and Polynices. On the other hand, the motives behind the war in Brecht's version are mainly economical, for Iron Ore, which would facilitate the production of war weaponry. (Sophocles= p. 67, lines 190-194; Brecht= p. 21, lines 144-150).
A second difference between the two versions is the relationship between Ismene and Antigone. In the Sophocles' version, there is a strong, blood tie between the two sisters and they show their ownership and affection for each other. For example, Antigone refers to Ismene as her "own flesh and blood" (p. 59, line 1). On the other hand, Brecht's version presents the two sisters as distanced beings, who are only sisters in name. Antigone in Brecht's versions refers to Ismene as "my sister Ismene, my twin" (p. 16). The strength of the relationship between Ismene and Antigone is significantly weaker in Brecht's version as opposed to Sophocles'. Sophocles' characters are more affectionate and appealing to the emotions whereas Brecht's characters simply portray their authority and are not immensed in the role they play.
The first major difference that my group (Ankita, Aubrey and Yen) noticed is that Polynices is depicted quite differently in each version. Brecht depicts Polynices according to the relatively modern definition of "traitor" (pg 1). In his version, Polynices, after seeing his brother die in battle, cannot bear the idea of war and so he runs from the army. This wold be the post WWII definition of a traitor because quitting to fight for your country is helping the enemy, which is the equivalent of treason. However, in Sophocles' version, Polynices had been exiled and Eteocles had been given power and Polynices returned to ask for power also. In the Brecht version, perhaps, the character can be pitied more than in Sophocles' version due to reason of the death and the story behind it.
ReplyDeleteThe second significant difference that we noticed between the two version was the portrayal of Creon. Although, seemingly harsh and meant to be hated, Brecht makes Creon offer Antigone a chance because they are related to each other (pg 29). In Sophocles' version, Creon is determined to have Antigone killed without offering a chance of repentance. Such complex portrayal of Creon's character by Brecht makes the readers pay more attention to Antigone's zeal and ardor of burying her brother and following the "unwritten laws" of the Gods. Perhaps, Brecht gives us a chance to see that both parties do not acknowledge the other side of the argument, hence no one must be sympathized with.
Group: Elim, Mark, Stephanie, Roselaine
ReplyDeleteDiff. 1: Ismene is characterized differently in Brecht's Antigone version. She seems, assumingly appropriate with Brecht's alienation effect, emotionally detached from "He, who has been denounced by the city.../He who caused the revolt" (Brecht, line 48&50) and thus upholds the law Kreon put into effect. Sophocles' Ismene however, maintains that "I [Ismene] am forced, I have no choice" (line 79) in leaving Polynices unburied, although she does internally mourn the death of both brothers. This difference changes Ismene's character altogether calling into question her loyalty wholly to polis (as Brecht version shows) or simply trapped by polis preventing her from burying her brother.
Diff. 2: The "salt water" metaphor Brecht includes in his Antigone version made Creon's mad obsession with power more evident as opposed to Sophocles' adaption. In Sophocles' Antigone, Creon's breaking point surfaces at his argument with Tiresias, the paranoia and defensive aggression evident is their dialogue. Brecht's metaphor equating power hungry tyrants with the irony of drinking salt water not only captures Creon's main fault, but also, because these words were given to Antigone, reinforce the idea of wisdom among the young, not just the old.
Group: Rosa, Alexa, Lorena
ReplyDeleteOne difference that our group noticed was in Brecht's version, the elders bluntly point out that Antigone is far more cynical towards the events in the story once it directly affects her. In Sophocles' version, she is painted with a slightly better image as one who believes from the beginning that things are wrong.
Another difference our group found was also from Brecht's version where Antigone places blame on Creon for the death of her brothers as opposed to blaming the brothers for killing each other. As a communist, Brecht tries to show that human nature is selfish and only wants to handle problems as they affect them. By blaming Creon for her brothers' mistakes, Antigone doesn't accept that her brothers are responsible for their own actions.
This is a delayed comment, but I want to say what a good job y'all did on this comparison assignment.
ReplyDeleteNote to the last entry: communists don't believe that human nature is selfish. In fact, they believe the opposite. They believe human nature has been distorted to become selfish, etc. by capitalism.